Anyone else notice that Doc suddenly clammed up over at HHI about the supposed location of the Mercedes? Was he read the riot act by the Angry Twit? Told to zip it once and for all?
Maybe he popped a noggin vessel trying to extrapolate the precise movements of a ship that sailed over 200 years ago. Lord knows he made a mess of all that over at Yahoo yesterday, as he usually does when he's presented with evidence contrary to his own.
Regardless, we're reminded that silence can be golden indeed.
Tuesday, May 6, 2008
HH Quote of the Day
"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds." ~ Albert Einstein
Civility...it's for the other guys
The HH nitwiterati spend an inordinate amount of time talking about their opponents' lack of "civility." In most cases, this simply means they don't like that some folks have the temerity to challenge the gospel according to HHI. They want you to sit, quietly listen, and shut up.
But do they live up to this noble call themselves? Our investigation reveals they're thin-skinned and decidedly uncivil. Perusing the HH website, specifically the "Odyssey and HMS Sussex" thread, we found plenty of insults, baseless accusations, name-calling, threats, you name it. We even found a juicy posting from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit, and others who could barely contain their fear and loathing of Odyssey. Enjoy.
Doc (2/2/07): "As to your question regarding the individuals orchestrating this; I think two of the principal manipulators, let's call them Mr. A and Mr. B, are playing in so many fields with OPM (other peoples' money) that this operation is probably 'Chump Change.' They are very wealthy individuals indeed, and they have friends."
Solomon (2/6/07): "I believe that the only interest OMR has in this is to string everyone along indefinitely, whilst the directors live off the capital and make what they can from the share options. And why not? The same gameplan worked with the Republic."
We wonder: With comments like these (and others), how did Solomon manage to avoid being pulled into Odyssey's libel suit? He better thank his lucky bupkus he didn't post this garbage over on Yahoo, like his less-smart, third-rate minion, Doc.
Solomon (2/15/07): "The Blair government is and always has been a venal, conniving bunch of lying, thieving conmen. This OMR deal is all too typical."
Nice sentiments about one's own government, eh? Think Solomon has a little anger/bitterness issue? You think?
Solomon (2/16/07): "The time is not far away, I suspect, when many others will begin to trawl OMR statements in an attempt to understand how they got suckered. You are right, Doc, in saying not much has happened in the last five years, at least as far as making progress is concerned. OMR has managed, though to spend a lot of other peoples' money. On what security? Poor research and dreams of avarice."
What's that smell? Faintly has the scent of libel....
Sovereign (2/26/07): "As others have commented at History Hunters, the world in which OMR works is replete with shady people and sometimes, criminal activity including fraud...."
No sweeping generalizations here, no sir-ee Bob.
Solomon (3/24/07): "One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are."
Wow, the Angry Twit's pretty well worked up! You can almost see those red veins popping through that vast, empty territory that is his forehead. Solomon even threatens violence, though we doubt the effete former TV producer could manage even a pussycat's scruff, let alone a man's. (Regardless, we'd pay to see both efforts.)
Interestingly, Jeff K. then chimes in to question HH's chronic and baseless insulting of the Odyssey management team. (You'll see how well that goes over.)
Jeff K. (3/25/07): "I've met the principals of Odyssey, and you have not. You draw your conclusions from what you have read in the press, and your own personal prejudice. I feel sorry for people who think everybody are crooks and liars. I'd really like you to show me where Odyssey has intentionally lied, and please don't quote some erroneous newspaper article. Show me proof..."
No proof from HH was forthcoming, of course, and this challenge was enough for the administrator (who we think is Solomon or Doc or both) to respond:
Administrator (4/5/07): "The arguments have been made and until the identity of the shipwreck is confirmed, or cargo examined, there is no more to be said. I am therefore locking this thread until that time. We leave this subject with this thought: History Hunters knows more of this than has been published by any of the parties and we are quite sure of our negative position."
In other words, "we are taking our toys and going home and there's nothing you can do to stop us. Nah!" But wait, Admin boy returns, and with yet more lies and threats!
Administrator (4/6/07): "This was posted by Jeff at the Yahoo forum on OMR, on 5-Apr-07 12:38 am. Look at his above post and you will see that it has not been modified by anyone. This disproves his claim that we edited his post. He has therefore lied and as a consequence, is now banned from here. He is joining another former member, banned for lying to this board, who then went on to fabricate more lies in the Yahoo forum. This is not the first time that Jeff has told untruths on issues related to OMR. Solomon commented that he did not trust OMR on anything and Jeff repeatedly told those at Yahoo that Solomon claimed that Solomon accused OMR of lying. On that occasion, Jeff got the benefit of the doubt: we assumed that he was merely incapable of understanding plain English. This seemed reasonable at the time, as it would also explain his inability to understand any of the argument concerning OMR. However and in this case, Jeff's claim is so transparently false that he will not be forgiven. I should also advise both Jeff and others that defaming History Hunters is actionable in law. We have various actions underway regarding OMR and more will follow. Now Jeff is on the list. Maybe others will join him."
Defaming HH is "actionable in law." Really? Well then, we can hardly wait to get our legal notice, 'cause we surely been laying some strap down on that HH ass.
The HH poseurs then post a completely innocuous post by Jeff and unlocks the thread to allow members to insult Jeff without the ability to defend himself. This, of course, is how cowards operate, both online and in real life. Of course, now the rest of the HH monkeys are all worked up and have to chime in:
Bart (4/9/07): "[Jeff] needs to find a hobby, 10,000 posts all over the internet [sic] is an unhealthy life. Let's all chip in and buy him a ship in a bottle kit for him to build."
That doesn't sound like our Jeff at all, actually, but it most definitively sounds like Doc, though.
And finally, in what has to be the most richly ironic, foot-in-mouth post Doc has ever made:
Doc (4/17/07): "Members, It would appear as if the Odyssey Explorer forgot something. LOL Whatever could it be that requires leaving Gibraltar with the so called treasures of the 'Sussex' so close at hand? Did they damage the ROV again? Maybe they didn't have the money to reclaim it the last time and are hurrying back to the UK to pick it up? Just guesses on my part really. It would appear as if OMR may be cooking the stock as I can't imagine why one would pay more for a large block of stock than the closing price yesterday. Enough of this nonsense. We will just sit back and watch as this unfolds.."
Hmmmm, yes Doc: Ho-Ho-Ho and LOL. As you were gloating and undoubtedly toasting yourself and your brilliance, Odyssey was off recovering the richest shipwreck treasure ever found. Once again proving what an ignorant ass you are.
Finally, poor Solomon, no doubt feeling the sting of Odyssey's BS success, chimes in to conclude the Sussex thread, with this noble, deeply civil thought (perhaps a precursor to his "grand moral vision"?):
Solomon (1/14/08): "Britain is littered with historians, archaeologists and heritage people. We have numerous, prestigious institutions looking after these issues. None said anything that I can find about these obvious falsehoods, though they are quick enough to take our money. I have no sympathy for them. As for the perpetrators, I hope they rot where they deserve. I have no sympathy for them."
Oh, poor Solomon, but we sympathize for you. It cannot be easy to be both goofy looking and goofy acting at the same time. Perhaps this explains the origin of your deep well of anger and bitterness.
We feel for you, sir. Truly.
But do they live up to this noble call themselves? Our investigation reveals they're thin-skinned and decidedly uncivil. Perusing the HH website, specifically the "Odyssey and HMS Sussex" thread, we found plenty of insults, baseless accusations, name-calling, threats, you name it. We even found a juicy posting from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit, and others who could barely contain their fear and loathing of Odyssey. Enjoy.
Doc (2/2/07): "As to your question regarding the individuals orchestrating this; I think two of the principal manipulators, let's call them Mr. A and Mr. B, are playing in so many fields with OPM (other peoples' money) that this operation is probably 'Chump Change.' They are very wealthy individuals indeed, and they have friends."
Solomon (2/6/07): "I believe that the only interest OMR has in this is to string everyone along indefinitely, whilst the directors live off the capital and make what they can from the share options. And why not? The same gameplan worked with the Republic."
We wonder: With comments like these (and others), how did Solomon manage to avoid being pulled into Odyssey's libel suit? He better thank his lucky bupkus he didn't post this garbage over on Yahoo, like his less-smart, third-rate minion, Doc.
Solomon (2/15/07): "The Blair government is and always has been a venal, conniving bunch of lying, thieving conmen. This OMR deal is all too typical."
Nice sentiments about one's own government, eh? Think Solomon has a little anger/bitterness issue? You think?
Solomon (2/16/07): "The time is not far away, I suspect, when many others will begin to trawl OMR statements in an attempt to understand how they got suckered. You are right, Doc, in saying not much has happened in the last five years, at least as far as making progress is concerned. OMR has managed, though to spend a lot of other peoples' money. On what security? Poor research and dreams of avarice."
What's that smell? Faintly has the scent of libel....
Sovereign (2/26/07): "As others have commented at History Hunters, the world in which OMR works is replete with shady people and sometimes, criminal activity including fraud...."
No sweeping generalizations here, no sir-ee Bob.
Solomon (3/24/07): "One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are."
Wow, the Angry Twit's pretty well worked up! You can almost see those red veins popping through that vast, empty territory that is his forehead. Solomon even threatens violence, though we doubt the effete former TV producer could manage even a pussycat's scruff, let alone a man's. (Regardless, we'd pay to see both efforts.)
Interestingly, Jeff K. then chimes in to question HH's chronic and baseless insulting of the Odyssey management team. (You'll see how well that goes over.)
Jeff K. (3/25/07): "I've met the principals of Odyssey, and you have not. You draw your conclusions from what you have read in the press, and your own personal prejudice. I feel sorry for people who think everybody are crooks and liars. I'd really like you to show me where Odyssey has intentionally lied, and please don't quote some erroneous newspaper article. Show me proof..."
No proof from HH was forthcoming, of course, and this challenge was enough for the administrator (who we think is Solomon or Doc or both) to respond:
Administrator (4/5/07): "The arguments have been made and until the identity of the shipwreck is confirmed, or cargo examined, there is no more to be said. I am therefore locking this thread until that time. We leave this subject with this thought: History Hunters knows more of this than has been published by any of the parties and we are quite sure of our negative position."
In other words, "we are taking our toys and going home and there's nothing you can do to stop us. Nah!" But wait, Admin boy returns, and with yet more lies and threats!
Administrator (4/6/07): "This was posted by Jeff at the Yahoo forum on OMR, on 5-Apr-07 12:38 am. Look at his above post and you will see that it has not been modified by anyone. This disproves his claim that we edited his post. He has therefore lied and as a consequence, is now banned from here. He is joining another former member, banned for lying to this board, who then went on to fabricate more lies in the Yahoo forum. This is not the first time that Jeff has told untruths on issues related to OMR. Solomon commented that he did not trust OMR on anything and Jeff repeatedly told those at Yahoo that Solomon claimed that Solomon accused OMR of lying. On that occasion, Jeff got the benefit of the doubt: we assumed that he was merely incapable of understanding plain English. This seemed reasonable at the time, as it would also explain his inability to understand any of the argument concerning OMR. However and in this case, Jeff's claim is so transparently false that he will not be forgiven. I should also advise both Jeff and others that defaming History Hunters is actionable in law. We have various actions underway regarding OMR and more will follow. Now Jeff is on the list. Maybe others will join him."
Defaming HH is "actionable in law." Really? Well then, we can hardly wait to get our legal notice, 'cause we surely been laying some strap down on that HH ass.
The HH poseurs then post a completely innocuous post by Jeff and unlocks the thread to allow members to insult Jeff without the ability to defend himself. This, of course, is how cowards operate, both online and in real life. Of course, now the rest of the HH monkeys are all worked up and have to chime in:
Bart (4/9/07): "[Jeff] needs to find a hobby, 10,000 posts all over the internet [sic] is an unhealthy life. Let's all chip in and buy him a ship in a bottle kit for him to build."
That doesn't sound like our Jeff at all, actually, but it most definitively sounds like Doc, though.
And finally, in what has to be the most richly ironic, foot-in-mouth post Doc has ever made:
Doc (4/17/07): "Members, It would appear as if the Odyssey Explorer forgot something. LOL Whatever could it be that requires leaving Gibraltar with the so called treasures of the 'Sussex' so close at hand? Did they damage the ROV again? Maybe they didn't have the money to reclaim it the last time and are hurrying back to the UK to pick it up? Just guesses on my part really. It would appear as if OMR may be cooking the stock as I can't imagine why one would pay more for a large block of stock than the closing price yesterday. Enough of this nonsense. We will just sit back and watch as this unfolds.."
Hmmmm, yes Doc: Ho-Ho-Ho and LOL. As you were gloating and undoubtedly toasting yourself and your brilliance, Odyssey was off recovering the richest shipwreck treasure ever found. Once again proving what an ignorant ass you are.
Finally, poor Solomon, no doubt feeling the sting of Odyssey's BS success, chimes in to conclude the Sussex thread, with this noble, deeply civil thought (perhaps a precursor to his "grand moral vision"?):
Solomon (1/14/08): "Britain is littered with historians, archaeologists and heritage people. We have numerous, prestigious institutions looking after these issues. None said anything that I can find about these obvious falsehoods, though they are quick enough to take our money. I have no sympathy for them. As for the perpetrators, I hope they rot where they deserve. I have no sympathy for them."
Oh, poor Solomon, but we sympathize for you. It cannot be easy to be both goofy looking and goofy acting at the same time. Perhaps this explains the origin of your deep well of anger and bitterness.
We feel for you, sir. Truly.
Monday, May 5, 2008
Monkey Produces Hamlet!
The HH clowns finally got an updated professional shot of Doc at work posted on their website. Here he is pondering the content of his next letter to the court in his Odyssey libel trial ("hmmmm, how do I work in the CIA's involvement?").
Sunday, May 4, 2008
To know, truly
We're always amused by what goes on at the HH website, but especially so when it involves the endless mental masturbation about the Mercedes, specifically where it was supposedly heading and where it ultimately sank after exploding. Not surprisingly, much of this is being pursued by our libelous little buddy, Doc.
The HH poseurs appear to lack a basic, common sense understanding of the inherent limitations of historical analysis. That, despite first-hand accounts (which are nearly always flawed), maps, ship and nautical notes, secondary sources, etc., one cannot re-create precisely, with 100 percent certainty, what has happened in the past. Every student who's had even an elementary course in history is taught this truism.
Gazing back into the mists of history requires humility, something the HH clowns are in short supply of (this is what happens when you surround yourselves with yes men while killing all contrary opinion in your midst). Attempts to recreate, or analyze, historic events must be approached with the understanding that one can't possibly conclude what happened with certainty, or what the players involved actually thought or did. Nor can one overlook or diminish the role of human unpredictability that influences events, which ultimately end up as mere snapshots in time. We can certainly do our best to try to understand what happened and why, but we can never claim to have captured every nuance or explain away every mystery, especially concerning events that occurred over 200 years ago.
But all these practical considerations don't stop our little worker bee Doc from stating with near certainly where he thinks the Mercedes was headed and went down (this despite less-than-subtle suggestions from Solomon to cool it given the limitations of the historical evidence). Not does it prevent him from using words like "certainly," "definitively," "we can conclude," etc. and other modifiers that would indicate he's positively figured out precisely what happened between two nations and several ships on a single day in 1804.
Why this effort? Perhaps Doc requires a mental distraction from the harsh, real-world reality of his upcoming Odyssey libel trial. We're left to merely speculate.
This is one of the most damning behaviors of the HH poseurs: They believe their amateur interpretation of online research and assorted secondary sources, coupled with their own (often wild) speculations, results in a magical reaction that results in -- POOF -- the truth.
Of course, we all know it's slightly more complicated than that....
The HH poseurs appear to lack a basic, common sense understanding of the inherent limitations of historical analysis. That, despite first-hand accounts (which are nearly always flawed), maps, ship and nautical notes, secondary sources, etc., one cannot re-create precisely, with 100 percent certainty, what has happened in the past. Every student who's had even an elementary course in history is taught this truism.
Gazing back into the mists of history requires humility, something the HH clowns are in short supply of (this is what happens when you surround yourselves with yes men while killing all contrary opinion in your midst). Attempts to recreate, or analyze, historic events must be approached with the understanding that one can't possibly conclude what happened with certainty, or what the players involved actually thought or did. Nor can one overlook or diminish the role of human unpredictability that influences events, which ultimately end up as mere snapshots in time. We can certainly do our best to try to understand what happened and why, but we can never claim to have captured every nuance or explain away every mystery, especially concerning events that occurred over 200 years ago.
But all these practical considerations don't stop our little worker bee Doc from stating with near certainly where he thinks the Mercedes was headed and went down (this despite less-than-subtle suggestions from Solomon to cool it given the limitations of the historical evidence). Not does it prevent him from using words like "certainly," "definitively," "we can conclude," etc. and other modifiers that would indicate he's positively figured out precisely what happened between two nations and several ships on a single day in 1804.
Why this effort? Perhaps Doc requires a mental distraction from the harsh, real-world reality of his upcoming Odyssey libel trial. We're left to merely speculate.
This is one of the most damning behaviors of the HH poseurs: They believe their amateur interpretation of online research and assorted secondary sources, coupled with their own (often wild) speculations, results in a magical reaction that results in -- POOF -- the truth.
Of course, we all know it's slightly more complicated than that....
HH Quote of the Day...
...a new feature in honor of our HH history poseur friends:
"There is no such thing as an underestimate of average intelligence." ~ Henry Adams (1838 - 1918)
The Nerve of the Devil
Those objective, historically focused dillweeds over at HH were kind enough to post a "schedule of events" for Odyssey this coming week. Of course, the history poseurs couldn't resist some non-partisan commentary as well:
As far as Odyssey running out of cash, HH cites nothing to back this up (we know they don't understand financials), so once again we have clear and convincing evidence of their use of scummy innuendo -- a favorite practice of the nitwit-erati -- to try to score a cheap point.
But our favorite HH "idea" is the one that Spain has been fighting Odyssey with mere "kid gloves." Yeah, that's right, Spain hasn't been tough enough for the 90 pound weaklings over at HH. We're not sure what "saga" they're watching, but they clearly want more "combat" (as cowards often do when they're at a safe distance). Perhaps they'd like to see Spain, instead of merely illegally seizing Odyssey's ships on international waters, open fire and bomb the vessels. Maybe hang the crew at sunset?
Objective. Seekers of the truth. Historical devotees. Whatever.
We found an amusing if rambling, rather histrionic quote from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit (he's just old enough for the onset of menopause symptoms) that may explain this hysterical pleading for Spain to get "tougher" on OMEX:
Solomon (3/24/07) : One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are.
In "real life"?! As opposed to what, tough-guy poster Solomon? Your unreal life running HH, or your claims to be an accomplished historian and archaeologist? Are YOU for real?
Finally, you gotta love the Angry Twit's reference to the Devil. We're talking evil here, folks. Any wonder then that Solomon deludes himself and his followers into believing (truly) their efforts are on the vanguard of a new and "grand moral vision"? More like a drunken grand poo-bah leading his mindless, stampeding herd right over a cliff, in our opinion.
We've got an exciting week planned too. We expect that as Odyssey completes its annual meeting, and Spain reacts to Odyssey's interrogatories, we'll have plenty of riotous HH material to mock and shred (our version of "shock and awe"). We expect much laughter and merriment to ensue, so please stay tuned!
Not sure what they mean by "AGM," but we assume this means the company's annual shareholder meeting. Note the dripping-with-envy comment about the company possibly dropping another "grand announcement," about a treasure find, which would surely cause the spontaneous combustion of many pea brains over at HH HQ.Much is happening this week in the saga of Odyssey Marine.
7 May: the company's AGM.
8 May: Spain makes an official statement.
9 May: court interrogatory answers from Spain are due.
Will the company make yet another grand announcement of finding treasure?
Will Spain finally exchange its kid gloves for something more combative?
The company must be running short of cash again, so something has to give.
As far as Odyssey running out of cash, HH cites nothing to back this up (we know they don't understand financials), so once again we have clear and convincing evidence of their use of scummy innuendo -- a favorite practice of the nitwit-erati -- to try to score a cheap point.
But our favorite HH "idea" is the one that Spain has been fighting Odyssey with mere "kid gloves." Yeah, that's right, Spain hasn't been tough enough for the 90 pound weaklings over at HH. We're not sure what "saga" they're watching, but they clearly want more "combat" (as cowards often do when they're at a safe distance). Perhaps they'd like to see Spain, instead of merely illegally seizing Odyssey's ships on international waters, open fire and bomb the vessels. Maybe hang the crew at sunset?
Objective. Seekers of the truth. Historical devotees. Whatever.
We found an amusing if rambling, rather histrionic quote from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit (he's just old enough for the onset of menopause symptoms) that may explain this hysterical pleading for Spain to get "tougher" on OMEX:
Solomon (3/24/07) : One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are.
In "real life"?! As opposed to what, tough-guy poster Solomon? Your unreal life running HH, or your claims to be an accomplished historian and archaeologist? Are YOU for real?
Finally, you gotta love the Angry Twit's reference to the Devil. We're talking evil here, folks. Any wonder then that Solomon deludes himself and his followers into believing (truly) their efforts are on the vanguard of a new and "grand moral vision"? More like a drunken grand poo-bah leading his mindless, stampeding herd right over a cliff, in our opinion.
We've got an exciting week planned too. We expect that as Odyssey completes its annual meeting, and Spain reacts to Odyssey's interrogatories, we'll have plenty of riotous HH material to mock and shred (our version of "shock and awe"). We expect much laughter and merriment to ensue, so please stay tuned!
Friday, May 2, 2008
"Stand Down!", he roared with indignation.
Some interesting back and forth over at HH regarding the Mercedes today.
Doc, as usual, drones on and on and on about location, location, location. But it appears Solomon has applied yet another disciplinary smack, and a firm stomp on the brakes, to Doc's efforts.
Solomon: "Doc, Our argument on location is in particular reference to the arrest, claimed to be in international waters. We must not be tempted to go further...As Lubby has pointed out in a number of posts, much is uncertain. The version of España Maritima quoted by Lubby and requoted by you is a translation into English from the Spanish, by Tofiño de San Miguel. Do you know when the original was written, or how up-to-date was all the detail?...All we can say with any degree of certainty is that our calculations (not the archival records themselves, but based on the data therein) indicate strongly that the Odyssey claim to have found the Black Swan inside international waters in [sic] wrong. We have nothing to gain by trying to go further, most especially with a guess-estimate."
Why not go further? What is Solomon afraid of? Is Doc bungling interpretations so badly (Solomon characterizes them as "guest-estimates") that he must be muzzled? And what does Solomon mean that the archival records don't themselves prove anything about where the ship went down, but that the "data therein" indicates Odyssey is lying? Does that make sense? And, while we admire Sir Solomon the Angry Twit's efforts to bring Doc back to Earth regarding his reading of and extrapolation from the primary sources, he too can't help himself by once again calling Odyssey liars about where they found the Black Swan (BS).
For the record, here is what Odyssey officially said about where they recovered the BS (emphasis ours):
So does constantly posting that the company is lying about this constitute libel? We think so.
Regardless of all the banter, it's always great fun watching Solomon lay the strap on our favorite whipping boy, Doc, and we think a marvelous way to kick off the weekend. So, have a fun and relaxing weekend everyone. We'll have some new material and posts for you next week.
UPDATE: Looks like Doc couldn't leave well enough alone and kept speculating about the BS and where it went down. This apparently did not sit well with Solomon -- again -- and he posted:
Solomon: "Doc, in the chart you provide, the soundings for the channel illustrated are marked as 3 and 4. Are those fathoms? The importance of Faro as a port has already been noted. She sent forth voyages of exploration across the world and was one the principal ports of Portugal for trade with the Americas. When was Espana Maritima written? Was it accurate?"
The "master" is once again chastising the pupil for his accuracy in research, his repetitiveness (that's a few times now), while also questioning his interpretation and use of primary sources for his speculations. This is turning out to be a most excellent Friday indeed.
Kick back and pop a cold one, kids!
UPDATE-2: This comment, from our friend Jeff K., is so good, we're pulling into the main body of this post:
Doc, as usual, drones on and on and on about location, location, location. But it appears Solomon has applied yet another disciplinary smack, and a firm stomp on the brakes, to Doc's efforts.
Solomon: "Doc, Our argument on location is in particular reference to the arrest, claimed to be in international waters. We must not be tempted to go further...As Lubby has pointed out in a number of posts, much is uncertain. The version of España Maritima quoted by Lubby and requoted by you is a translation into English from the Spanish, by Tofiño de San Miguel. Do you know when the original was written, or how up-to-date was all the detail?...All we can say with any degree of certainty is that our calculations (not the archival records themselves, but based on the data therein) indicate strongly that the Odyssey claim to have found the Black Swan inside international waters in [sic] wrong. We have nothing to gain by trying to go further, most especially with a guess-estimate."
Why not go further? What is Solomon afraid of? Is Doc bungling interpretations so badly (Solomon characterizes them as "guest-estimates") that he must be muzzled? And what does Solomon mean that the archival records don't themselves prove anything about where the ship went down, but that the "data therein" indicates Odyssey is lying? Does that make sense? And, while we admire Sir Solomon the Angry Twit's efforts to bring Doc back to Earth regarding his reading of and extrapolation from the primary sources, he too can't help himself by once again calling Odyssey liars about where they found the Black Swan (BS).
For the record, here is what Odyssey officially said about where they recovered the BS (emphasis ours):
It is believed that this recovery constitutes the largest collection of coins ever excavated from a historical shipwreck site. They were recovered in conformity with Salvage Law and the Law of the Sea Convention, beyond the territorial waters or legal jurisdiction of any country. The Company does not believe that the recovery is subject to sovereign immunity by any nation pursuant to the Law of the Sea Convention. (Odyssey's May, 18, 2007, press release.)That's a clear, definitive statement. Odyssey's ocean movements, and the precise coordinates of where the BS was found and archaeologically excavated, are well-documented and part of the public record. Why anyone thinks the company would lie about something so basic, and so easy to disprove publicly, is beyond our comprehension.
So does constantly posting that the company is lying about this constitute libel? We think so.
Regardless of all the banter, it's always great fun watching Solomon lay the strap on our favorite whipping boy, Doc, and we think a marvelous way to kick off the weekend. So, have a fun and relaxing weekend everyone. We'll have some new material and posts for you next week.
UPDATE: Looks like Doc couldn't leave well enough alone and kept speculating about the BS and where it went down. This apparently did not sit well with Solomon -- again -- and he posted:
Solomon: "Doc, in the chart you provide, the soundings for the channel illustrated are marked as 3 and 4. Are those fathoms? The importance of Faro as a port has already been noted. She sent forth voyages of exploration across the world and was one the principal ports of Portugal for trade with the Americas. When was Espana Maritima written? Was it accurate?"
The "master" is once again chastising the pupil for his accuracy in research, his repetitiveness (that's a few times now), while also questioning his interpretation and use of primary sources for his speculations. This is turning out to be a most excellent Friday indeed.
Kick back and pop a cold one, kids!
UPDATE-2: This comment, from our friend Jeff K., is so good, we're pulling into the main body of this post:
Here's a quote from Doc: "The recovery of even a single inscribed bronze cannon would identify the Mercedes. The records kept in the Museo Naval and the Real Arsenal would specify the last ship to which the cannon was assigned. Now, where are the cannon?"
Not going to happen! The Spanish stopped using bronze cannons 100 years before the Mercedes sank. So much for Doc's knowledge about Spanish armament. ~ Jeff K.
Thursday, May 1, 2008
We ain't them
Somebody emailed us anonymously to ask a critical, but fair question. And since we make it a point to not behave like the HH Stalinist bureaucrats, we're going to answer it. This person said they liked the blog, and said we were creating a "History Hunters Hell" (which we liked), but wanted to know why, if we're getting as many hits as our indicator shows, so few posted comments or participated in the polling.
Let's first address whether our hit counts are accurate or above board. The hit counter you see on the lower right side of this website is a downloaded piece of freeware that (magically!) counts visits to our website in the background. We have nothing to do with it nor are we able to manipulate it (check out the link to their website, if you like). Now, could we sit at our computers and refresh our browsers every 3 seconds to drive the count up one click at a time? Sure could. Would we do that? Uh, no. We'd much rather spend our limited time parsing the HH website for the extraordinarily stupid postings that make this site so much fun, and we think, popular.
Regarding comments posted to this site, we too are surprised more people don't add commentary. We certainly welcome it, and we will not moderate or censor them like some folks we know (within reason, of course). As one friend told us, he didn't even know posting comments was possible. So maybe you don't either. So please, by all means, add your two cents to the fray.
Finally, regarding poll participation, how do we know why only 30 or so people voted in our last poll? Not everyone who goes to a baseball game buys a beer, but that doesn't reduce the final attendance number, does it? The only other explanation we can think to provide is that perhaps most people find the polling to be silly and sophomoric, which of course it purposely is.
So there you have it: we don't manipulate our website hits (though we don't doubt there are those at HH who'd like to think so), we welcome and encourage your comments, and if you don't want to vote in the poll, we understand. Though, we hope you'll at least enjoy the super scientific objective results.
Let's first address whether our hit counts are accurate or above board. The hit counter you see on the lower right side of this website is a downloaded piece of freeware that (magically!) counts visits to our website in the background. We have nothing to do with it nor are we able to manipulate it (check out the link to their website, if you like). Now, could we sit at our computers and refresh our browsers every 3 seconds to drive the count up one click at a time? Sure could. Would we do that? Uh, no. We'd much rather spend our limited time parsing the HH website for the extraordinarily stupid postings that make this site so much fun, and we think, popular.
Regarding comments posted to this site, we too are surprised more people don't add commentary. We certainly welcome it, and we will not moderate or censor them like some folks we know (within reason, of course). As one friend told us, he didn't even know posting comments was possible. So maybe you don't either. So please, by all means, add your two cents to the fray.
Finally, regarding poll participation, how do we know why only 30 or so people voted in our last poll? Not everyone who goes to a baseball game buys a beer, but that doesn't reduce the final attendance number, does it? The only other explanation we can think to provide is that perhaps most people find the polling to be silly and sophomoric, which of course it purposely is.
So there you have it: we don't manipulate our website hits (though we don't doubt there are those at HH who'd like to think so), we welcome and encourage your comments, and if you don't want to vote in the poll, we understand. Though, we hope you'll at least enjoy the super scientific objective results.
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
Bring it!
We just noticed the history poseurs sent forth a silly messenger boy, Smitty (who we also believe is "fleas" on Yahoo and "SatDiver" on HH), to say an attorney reviewed our blog and found "libel," "slander," and "malicious content" (whatever that last means; we suppose it could be calling Solomon "goofy," although we have scientific poll numbers to back that up!). After we stopped laughing and blowing assorted beverages out our nostrils, we decided to offer up a little message for the good folks at HH:
Bring it on, mates.
As we've said, you enjoy the privilege of spouting garbage, lies and innuendo about Odyssey and it's supporters 24/7 on your blog (which is really all it is), while also practicing a draconian form of censorship of views counter to your own. Even banishing people is not beneath you. We knew an effort to hold you accountable for your publicly accessible words would ultimately lead to a response and a threat (even if veiled). After all, this is the predictable behavior of cowards. We're not, in other words, the least bit surprised.
We've little doubt that mucho gnashing of teeth and rendering of flesh is going on at HH and we rejoice in it. And the volume of website hits we've received in a little more than a week tells us we're onto something right and proper here. So we shall continue unabated; that's a promise set in stone.
One bit of disappointment: HH, the next time you want to threaten us, spare us the pathetic utterances of an emasculated errand boy and contact us directly, would you?
Bring it on, mates.
As we've said, you enjoy the privilege of spouting garbage, lies and innuendo about Odyssey and it's supporters 24/7 on your blog (which is really all it is), while also practicing a draconian form of censorship of views counter to your own. Even banishing people is not beneath you. We knew an effort to hold you accountable for your publicly accessible words would ultimately lead to a response and a threat (even if veiled). After all, this is the predictable behavior of cowards. We're not, in other words, the least bit surprised.
We've little doubt that mucho gnashing of teeth and rendering of flesh is going on at HH and we rejoice in it. And the volume of website hits we've received in a little more than a week tells us we're onto something right and proper here. So we shall continue unabated; that's a promise set in stone.
One bit of disappointment: HH, the next time you want to threaten us, spare us the pathetic utterances of an emasculated errand boy and contact us directly, would you?
Doc Docs Update
Well, it's clear Doc's court documents in his Odyssey libel case are popular. Of the four we've received from readers who obtained them from the public record, they've been viewed a whopping 195 times to date (see below).
If any of you have additional information from the public record related to Odyssey or HH, or if you want to share some good salacious gossip (preferably at the history poseurs expense), we'd love to see it. We can't guarantee we'll print everything, but if our lawyer tell us it's okay, you can bet you'll read it here first!
And please keep reading! Thanks....
If any of you have additional information from the public record related to Odyssey or HH, or if you want to share some good salacious gossip (preferably at the history poseurs expense), we'd love to see it. We can't guarantee we'll print everything, but if our lawyer tell us it's okay, you can bet you'll read it here first!
And please keep reading! Thanks....
Yep, he's goofy alright
Our super scientific objective poll has closed and the numbers are conclusive: according to our readers, Solomon is indeed goofy looking. By a final tally of 30 to 1 (it's good to know Solomon is reading us), voters said the man is not only an angry twit (well, okay, we actually said that), but also downright silly looking.
We think he would have been perfectly cast as a gimp on Benny Hill, but that's probably just us.
Out next poll, also "germane" to the HH poseurs, is whether Doc will be found guilty, or not guilty by reason of insanity, in his upcoming Odyssey libel trial. Of course, we shouldn't rule out, as Doc has claimed, that the FBI and US Attorney General will ride in to save the day for him. But, let's put it this way, we're not holding our collective breath on that outcome
We think he would have been perfectly cast as a gimp on Benny Hill, but that's probably just us.
Out next poll, also "germane" to the HH poseurs, is whether Doc will be found guilty, or not guilty by reason of insanity, in his upcoming Odyssey libel trial. Of course, we shouldn't rule out, as Doc has claimed, that the FBI and US Attorney General will ride in to save the day for him. But, let's put it this way, we're not holding our collective breath on that outcome
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
Speaking of "credentials"...
You don't need to read HH for long to see Doc and Solomon constantly touting their membership in the Council for British Archaeology (CBA). They clearly expect this bit of information to render those in opposition speechless, or as they would prefer, to fall to one's knees to grovel in the midst of greatness.
The more practical reality is that, for a mere 28 pounds ($55), anyone can join and claim the same membership rights and privileges while also receiving:
The more practical reality is that, for a mere 28 pounds ($55), anyone can join and claim the same membership rights and privileges while also receiving:
- 6 issues of British Archaeology (we see these stacked, unread, on the back of Doc's toilet; whereas Solomon places them in a highly visible area so visitors will see what a right-smart smarty pants he is)
- 3 membership newsletters
- A regional membership (whatever that means)
- A "voice in the work of the Council" (oh sure, gotta make those paying dues members feel involved!)
- An annual report
So, the next time you see Doc or Solomon pulling out this lame trump card (it's no different than someone claiming to be an expert on senior citizens issues because they happen to carry an AARP card), you'll have some perspective in hand, even if they don't.
A Legend (in his own mind)
One of the main tenets of the HH creed is to continually attack the credentials of the researchers and archaeologists employed by Odyssey. They demand this information as if they have a personal right to it, even when giving it to them would violate all common sense -- you wouldn't, after all, hand your business card or resume to a group devoted to constantly insulting you.
Nevertheless, as one peruses the HH website, it's amazing the self-proclaimed expertise, brilliance, and talents of the HH nitwit-erati, none of which is substantiated or backed up with proof or specific detail. We've already posted about that angry twit, Solomon, who claimed he was an "historian and archaeologist" (though he was referred to merely as an "amateur" in the New Yorker piece), but what of our clueless wonder, Doc?
No one understands why Doc is celebrated by himself and his HH compatriots as an expert in anything, although he does claim the title "captain" for himself. See if you agree with us that the public statements below from the HH website (the Sussex thread), jibe with what you know about our favorite whipping boy, Doc. These posts, by the way involved a conversation between Doc and our our good friend Jeff K, who was more than holding his own against the HH rabble regarding the Sussex before his arguments became inconsistent with the party line, he was unjustifiably accused of lying, threatened with legal action, and ultimately banned.
As usual, Doc was pursuing his repetitive, circular, illogical nonsense regarding Odyssey and the Sussex when Jeff took him on directly:
Jeff K (2/25/07): "Doc... I guess you never put a puzzle together when you were a kid. Looking at one piece at a time you really can't tell what it is, but once you put all the pieces together, BINGO. Everyone of those ten points contributes to it being the Sussex, and not one says it is not."
Doc (2/25/07): "Jeff, There you go again, guessing. I've been getting paid to do puzzles for a very long time. Sometimes I get to travel all over the world doing it. Neat job and it pays well. Evidence is something I know."
Hmmm, "pays well"? Now, that's interesting. That directly contradicts Doc's recent letters to the court pleading poverty and crying about not being able to afford a defense attorney or travel to Tampa for his trial deposition. What gives?
Jeff (2/25/07): Doc, Then maybe you could enlighten us with your past achievements in solving puzzles.
Yes Jeff, we agree: by all means Doc, blow us away with your esteemed background which we mere mortals can only dream of...we're waiting:
Doc (2/25/07): Jeff, That would be off topic and not appropriate in this forum, rules Solomon and I set up in the beginning. Even in the Coffee Shop you won't find in depth personal stuff. There is a large group of members here who are professionals and making a living doing what most people only dream of.
Oh, we see. It's not "off topic" to suddenly brag about your so-called expertise, excellent pay and international travel involved in "puzzle solving," but when asked to provide some specifics about that claim, you cannot do it because that would be crossing a line. Right. How terribly convenient for you. And hypocritical, as well.
Yes, we're sure many of you, like us, have "dreamed" since childhood about driving a tow-boat rescuing sun-burned tourists (we think that's what he does), posting several thousand times a year about nothing, being personally sued for libel, and resorting to calling old friends "pedophiles" in public forums.
Positively dreamy, all that.
Nevertheless, as one peruses the HH website, it's amazing the self-proclaimed expertise, brilliance, and talents of the HH nitwit-erati, none of which is substantiated or backed up with proof or specific detail. We've already posted about that angry twit, Solomon, who claimed he was an "historian and archaeologist" (though he was referred to merely as an "amateur" in the New Yorker piece), but what of our clueless wonder, Doc?
No one understands why Doc is celebrated by himself and his HH compatriots as an expert in anything, although he does claim the title "captain" for himself. See if you agree with us that the public statements below from the HH website (the Sussex thread), jibe with what you know about our favorite whipping boy, Doc. These posts, by the way involved a conversation between Doc and our our good friend Jeff K, who was more than holding his own against the HH rabble regarding the Sussex before his arguments became inconsistent with the party line, he was unjustifiably accused of lying, threatened with legal action, and ultimately banned.
As usual, Doc was pursuing his repetitive, circular, illogical nonsense regarding Odyssey and the Sussex when Jeff took him on directly:
Jeff K (2/25/07): "Doc... I guess you never put a puzzle together when you were a kid. Looking at one piece at a time you really can't tell what it is, but once you put all the pieces together, BINGO. Everyone of those ten points contributes to it being the Sussex, and not one says it is not."
Doc (2/25/07): "Jeff, There you go again, guessing. I've been getting paid to do puzzles for a very long time. Sometimes I get to travel all over the world doing it. Neat job and it pays well. Evidence is something I know."
Hmmm, "pays well"? Now, that's interesting. That directly contradicts Doc's recent letters to the court pleading poverty and crying about not being able to afford a defense attorney or travel to Tampa for his trial deposition. What gives?
Jeff (2/25/07): Doc, Then maybe you could enlighten us with your past achievements in solving puzzles.
Yes Jeff, we agree: by all means Doc, blow us away with your esteemed background which we mere mortals can only dream of...we're waiting:
Doc (2/25/07): Jeff, That would be off topic and not appropriate in this forum, rules Solomon and I set up in the beginning. Even in the Coffee Shop you won't find in depth personal stuff. There is a large group of members here who are professionals and making a living doing what most people only dream of.
Oh, we see. It's not "off topic" to suddenly brag about your so-called expertise, excellent pay and international travel involved in "puzzle solving," but when asked to provide some specifics about that claim, you cannot do it because that would be crossing a line. Right. How terribly convenient for you. And hypocritical, as well.
Yes, we're sure many of you, like us, have "dreamed" since childhood about driving a tow-boat rescuing sun-burned tourists (we think that's what he does), posting several thousand times a year about nothing, being personally sued for libel, and resorting to calling old friends "pedophiles" in public forums.
Positively dreamy, all that.
He's got a fever...
Whilst looking for other comedic material, we stumbled on this comment from Solomon regarding the research ship fire that Doc tried to pin on Odyssey while attempting to drive down their share price:
Solomon (8/20/06): "So, whether the burning research vessel was theirs or not, the fact that they didn't bother to state the fact of the matter is an indication of the company's careless management."
Yes, that's right Mr. Goofy (hey, 30 of 31 votes don't lie), Odyssey has "careless management" because they did not bother to respond directly to the HH carbuncles who were spreading false rumors about this vessel fire with ill intent toward OMEX.
Incidentally, Solomon also failed to update this post once the information became known that the vessel was not Odyssey's. Once more displaying his and his colleagues "commitment" to historical accuracy and truth.
Some more of that "grand moral vision" in play, obviously.
Solomon (8/20/06): "So, whether the burning research vessel was theirs or not, the fact that they didn't bother to state the fact of the matter is an indication of the company's careless management."
Yes, that's right Mr. Goofy (hey, 30 of 31 votes don't lie), Odyssey has "careless management" because they did not bother to respond directly to the HH carbuncles who were spreading false rumors about this vessel fire with ill intent toward OMEX.
Incidentally, Solomon also failed to update this post once the information became known that the vessel was not Odyssey's. Once more displaying his and his colleagues "commitment" to historical accuracy and truth.
Some more of that "grand moral vision" in play, obviously.
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