It's been a long, very tiring day for all of us at HH Watch (and we're sure you too). Between reading the various press reports, the HHI website, and slogging through the stinking heap of poo laid over at Yahoo (Doc and Smitty combined for over 35 worthless posts alone, as someone pointed out), our collective head is throbbing.
So, rather than parse to death all that's happened today (and there was a lot), we thought we'd give you our unprofessional, uninformed and unsolicited view from 35,000 feet.
First, the press conference.
How in the world did Jim Goold convince his client, Spain, to go out on a limb like this? In front of the entire world, and in advance of Judge Pizzo even having an opportunity to review Spain's filings, Goold announced the BS treasure was definitively from the Mercedes and his client was therefore entitled to 100% of the find, with zero compensation to Odyssey.
But Goold went even further, making what we think was a potentially fatal, profoundly stupid, miscalculation: he dramatically personalized the case, and in the process, completely and unfairly demonized Odyssey in the public eye, particularly in Spain and probably throughout Europe, where Odyssey is currently operating. In addition to essentially calling Odyssey immoral liars, he also incredibly said they had desecrated a Spanish war grave (of course, this is a completely ridiculous and unfounded charge, and we'll address it in more detail later).
Wow. We can only imagine how Judge Pizzo will react to this tomorrow when he opens his newspaper. How happy do you think he's going to be that Jim Goold arbitrarily decided to serve as judge, jury and executioner before the judge even had a chance to sip his morning coffee? Think he'll dig that move?
Worse, and this is where we think Goold seriously fucked up, his actions today virtually ensure that no compromise or settlement can be reached between the two parties, something the court almost always prefers. By purposely trying to paint a false mental picture of Odyssey shoving aside rotting Spanish corpses to greedily get at the BS treasure, Goold has forced his client into a sharp corner we're not sure he can escape from. How, for example, can he possibly say to the people and government of Spain: "Well, we know we initially said Odyssey is an immoral, grave-robbing, lying profit-mongrel, but today we think settling is our best course of action." (In other words, when Goold's losing the case and it's become obvious to everyone.)
We can't imagine any scenario where Judge Pizzo is going to be too happy about this behavior. If you think he was mad at Stemm for talking to a single Spanish reporter about the BS find the day when Odyssey's interrogatories were due, imagine how he's going to react about Goold spouting off to the world that as far as he's concerned, this trial is over and he's won. Call us crazy, but we think Judge Pizzo might have a thought or two about that.
So, how did the nimrods over at HHI respond? About as you'd expect. Interestingly, despite not one word ever being written on the site about the Mercedes as a "war grave," the whole bunch is all over it now, with one member even calling Stemm a "sick SOB." Smitty, or "SatDiver" on HHI, went so far as to argue that if a person believes and supports Odyssey about the BS find, then they're no different from those religious nutjobs who protest our servicemens' funerals after their ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It never fails to amaze us the depths these people will go to score points against their hated enemy, Odyssey. Go read the site and see if you can find one decent voice of reason or sanity. You can't. Between Doc's endless accusations of OMEX malfeasance, Solomon's increasingly shrill, venomous insults hurled at Stemm and Odyssey investors, or those HHI members who, without basis, delight in calling the good people of Odyssey "frauds," "criminals," and of course, now thanks to Goold, "war grave desecraters."
Lovely, eh?
To conclude: We see nothing in today's actions that represent a credible threat against Odyssey. We don't see that Spain provided any evidence to buttress their arguments about the Mercedes. And, as we all know, the burden is on them to prove their ownership interest. Frankly, with no shipwreck to speak of, we don't know how they think they're going to pull this argument off, but we're going to have fun watching them try. Finally, Odyssey's press release tonight communicated a calm assuredness. The company clearly seems quietly confident about where this is all headed, and we're thrilled with that, obviously.
So, stay tuned. We're off to collapse now.
Friday, May 9, 2008
Thursday, May 8, 2008
Why we fight
We received an email from a reader signed "Not Solomon" (would we kid you?) asking us why we're so hard on HHI, Solomon and Doc, and whether our behavior isn't ultimately stooping to their level and putting us in the category of "not credible."First of all, who said we wanted to be "credible"? We obviously don't take ourselves too seriously and we certainly don't expect to be taking full credit for long articles in national magazines (ahem). We write this as much to make ourselves and others laugh and snicker as to rip HHI.
We don't proclaim to the world that we're experts in anything, let alone the fields of history, underwater exploration or archaeology. We don't have educational programs for children, the elderly or sick, or small pets. We don't raise alms for the poor. If we wanted to be any of these high-falutin things we'd strive for much higher standards.
For example, we'd actually make an effort to get our history and facts right. We'd strive for an objective tone. Skeptical? Absolutely, but also always fair. We'd never reduce ourselves to crass insults, blind hatred, name calling, or the employment of lies, distortions or mistruths to make a point. In other words, we'd try to be all the things HHI is not.
Instead, we exist to tweak HHI's hypocrisy and by calling out it's spiritual leaders, Solomon and Doc, for their visceral hatred of Odyssey, which, oddly enough, has never been fully articulated or explained. Who knows? Maybe it's a source of embarrassment for them, like one of them was denied a job, or perhaps a contract proposal sent to Odyssey was rejected for sheer stupidity?
We fight Virginia -- may we call you "Virginia"? -- because we hate hypocrites and bullies who demand people see things as they do with no room for reasonable disagreement, and who bleat on endlessly about civility and respect while displaying none of it themselves.
Are we juvenile? Um, yes. Are we insulting? We try. Do we care if we hurt HHI feelings? Uh, non. But, then again, we don't care what other people think. We do know this: we encourage open debate, we post comments contrary to our own opinions, and we don't ban or block people's IP address for daring to disagree with us. And considering that in as little as a couple of weeks we've already received nearly 2,500 hits, we'd say we've hit on a winning formula that at least some people like.
Does that answer it, "Not Solomon"?
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
Mice & Men
Our favorite punching bag, affectionately (well, okay, derisively) known here as Sir Solomon the Angry Twit, is showing increasing, though still amusing, signs of imbalance.In yet another histrionic response on HHI to some nonsense posted by "Lubby" (we hear he's chubby) about a Greg Stemm quote from Reuters (of course, Solomon forgets that he just recently chastised Reuters for not being critical enough of Odyssey and being in the company's pocket), the Angry Twit practically self-immolated:
Solomon: "A strong point, Lubby, showing Stemm as the slippery, slimy character he is. He reminds me of that old adage: would you buy a used car from this man? Personally, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw a postage stamp...."
It's pathetic, is it not, to see Solomon so eagerly stooping to this level of slander toward a man he's never met, and with whom he supposedly is just having an academic...well, more accurately, an amateurish...disagreement over tactics with? We're reminded of Solomon's sniffling, pinky extended lecture about about how HHI would meet their enemies challenges with class and dignity, saying something along the lines of "you do your worst, and we'll show you our best."
Uh huh. We know this: we'd lay cold hard cash down that Stemm has never called anyone he has a professional or business disagreement with a "slimy used car salesman," or a "pedophile," like some of the HH's "best" have done in public forums. Speaks volumes, no?
Solomon: "...Odyssey...is suing my co-founder of History Hunters International for my words. Mind you, they haven't even attempted to find out if he actually wrote any of the words claimed to be libelous. Until Odyssey's lawyer writes to ask me, they cannot even begin. That is how slack Odyssey is in its legal representations, as also demonstrated across a range of their documents...."
If anyone can decider what Solomon is babbling about here, we sure could use your help. Is he actually claiming Odyssey is suing Doc because of his words? Does that make sense? And why must Odyssey write to him to ask about Doc and his Odyssey claims, particularly since the reason McManus is being sued is because of comments he posted about OMEX on the Yahoo financial board. (For the record, we think the Angry Twit is just not paying very close attention here.)
What's more, if Solomon read all our content instead of just those posts about him (he's a narcissist through and through), he could actually examine the court documents that outline the libel charges for himself. And we wouldn't even ban him or block his IP address!
Solomon: "...It raises the question, in my mind at least, as to whether Stemm is a loose cannon. It is difficult to believe that this raving loudmouth is making considered decisions with the support of his legal and PR teams...Should I list the other cases for these monomaniacal idiots and their dunderhead investors? What about the cases of Odyssey being sued? Or their arrests? Is my partner the only legal subject on Stemm's tiny mind? So it appears. The quicker this lot is consigned to the dustbin of history, the better."
Monomaniacal dunderheads. We have a guilty confession: we dig this turn of phrase. It would make an excellent name for a band, especially one coming out of Liverpool with a modern take on the Oasis sound. But we digress.
More seriously, beyond the additional, gratuitous insulting of Stemm again, it is touching to see Solomon sticking up for his little buddy -- even if he has to occasionally smack Doc around for his own good. Being literary types (yeah, right), this reminds us of Steinbeck's famous Of Mice and Men, with Solomon as "George" (i.e. the idiot) and Doc as "Lennie" (i.e. the retarded idiot). In fact, the following scene from the book perfectly captures the relationship between our two favorite Odyssey haters:
George: Go to sleep, Lennie.
Lennie: George?
George: Go to sleep, Lennie!
Lennie: I am sleepin', George
HH Quote of the Day, et al
“The dumbest people I know are those who know it all." ~ Malcolm Forbes
Speaking of dumb know-it-alls (Doc), below are the super scientific objective final poll numbers about whether Meat McManus would be found guilty or not in his upcoming Odyssey libel trial (which, as we posted earlier, is obviously being pursued aggressively by OMEX). Shockingly, the vast majority of us hung him. Admit it: even though voting has no connection whatsoever to anything in reality, it felt good didn't it?
Totally understandable.
Speaking of dumber know-it-alls (HHI), be sure to vote in our latest super scientific poll -- on the right-side column of this blog -- about whether you think Odyssey should sue HHI for various counts of libel and defamation. Have any doubts about whether that would be justified or not? Keep reading our posts that parse and mock in detail the history poseurs own words.
Thanks. 
Rites of McManus
Thanks to one of our readers in attendance at Odyssey's annual shareholder meeting this morning, we have a copy of the Q&A handed out. Very interesting. And if we were Doc, and we're obviously thrilled we're not, we'd be very concerned. How serious does Odyssey take its ongoing lawsuit again Doc, or "Jim McManus" as he's known in the real world? Enough so to add a question about the status of the case to the annual meeting Q&A:
Regardless of your plans, we're going to sit back and enjoy the show!
What is the status of the McManus defamation lawsuit?Well Jimmy Boy, it would appear you're not in Kansas any more. The real world is beckoning and we suggest you sit up and take notice. Recess is over, son.
On September 5, 2007, Odyssey filed a two-count Complaint against Jim McManus for libel and libel per se. In its Complaint, Odyssey cited to over 20 postings made by Mr. McManus on the Yahoo Finance Message Board that Odyssey maintains are defamatory. Mr. McManus initially responded to the Complaint on October 7, 2007,
maintaining that he “never knowingly posted false information” concerning Odyssey. Since Mr. McManus’ initial response, Odyssey has filed several motions to compel Mr. McManus to comport with the rules of civil procedure and to properly answer each numbered paragraph of the complaint. Mr. McManus finally complied on March 17, 2008. In addition to answering, Mr. McManus has filed several Motions to Dismiss. In this regard, Odyssey recently received an Order from the Court striking all three of Mr. McManus’ Motions to Dismiss. Odyssey now intends to engage in discovery which it will utilize in support of a motion for summary judgment.
In general, we do support any individual’s right to voice his or her opinion, whether that opinion agrees with or is contrary to Odyssey’s position. However, when defamatory comments are brought to our attention that may adversely affect the value of our company, we have a duty to protect our stockholders’ interests, and we consider appropriate corrective measures.
Regardless of your plans, we're going to sit back and enjoy the show!
The Bleat Goes On
The brief but lovely silence has been broken by the HH poseurs, who now gleefully screech about Odyssey's pending demise. Of course, this is nothing but premature postulation (there's medication for that fellas). Those who know Odyssey, and understand the company, are accustomed to opponents' constant doom's day predictions, so nothing new here. Odyssey has always forged on, oblivious to the non-stop bleating of know-it-all imbeciles.
This morning Scribe and Sir Solomon the Angry Twit (we're working on a trademark) are engaged in a lovefest, blissfully rolling about in what they perceive to be Odyssey's gore. It's not pretty, but it is amusing.
Scribe: "Receive a reward for a salvage Odyssey had been told - repeatedly - by the owner to not touch? Dream on, Stemm. Now look at this next part and try to count all the untruths: This sentence caught my attention: The Court also dismissed certain counts of Odyssey's Complaint which related to Spain's illegal actions against Odyssey. You bet the court did. How did Spain's detention of those ships relate to the admiralty arrest? Not in any way. And Odyssey is claiming the detention was illegal? Try going to a Madrid court and claiming that, fools!"
Where to begin with this lowlife? First, note the calm academic demeanor, so common to posts about Odyssey on the HH website: "Dream on." "Count all the mistruths." "Fools." No axe to grind here, no sir.
Next, the U.S. federal court dismissed Odyssey's claims against Spain's illegal detention of its ships because it does not have jurisdiction over such decisions, period. Finally, we'd be remiss if we didn't point out the sheer idiocy of Scribe's suggestion that Odyssey take its complaint against the Spanish government for the illegal seizure of its vessels to a "Madrid court," where he implies it would fail. Gee, you think?! No shite Sherlock. Do you charge for these powerful insights or do you try to give them away on a street corner?
Scribe: "I think we are seeing the end coming."
We're certain you do, Dirty Son of Solomon. But why should today be any different when you've been saying and predicting the same thing for years? Hmmm?
The Angry Twit, clearly titillated by all the tough-guy man talk, calls Odyssey "gutless" (some more of that objective tone and grand moral vision, we suppose) and chimes in:
Solomon: "First, OME claimed to all and sundry that Spain was blockading its ships at Gibraltar. This was an outright lie. Spain was doing the exact opposite: asking Odyssey to send its vessels out. 'Stay in' - 'come out' - as I said, the exact opposite.The lie has been repeated many times by OME's pumpers inside Yahoo Finance. OME has never disclaimed these pumpers, with their continual lies and misinformation. Yes, some must be just plain stupid - the illiteratti - but those few (masquerading as a crowd) who run the campaign, they know what they are about."
An "outright lie"? Yes Solomon, Spain was merely waiting for Odyssey to come out and play. Perhaps share some tapas and sangria. This is the most idiotic thing you've written yet, and you've an impressive body of work, friend. Spain illegally seized Odyssey's vessels, with a secret warrant that has yet to be produced, then arrested and imprisoned Odyssey's captain for daring to protest Spain's actions in international waters. And we suppose the official UK and US protests regarding these actions don't matter, right? (Well, surely they're also on Odyssey's payroll too, just like the international media.)
This claim is stupid enough on its face, but Solomon goes even further. He turns his unholy wrath on those on the Yahoo board, and takes Odyssey to task for failing to disclaim supposed lies and mistruths posted by anonymous individuals. Never mind the rich irony in this -- should Solomon have disclaimed Doc's habit of regularly calling Yahoo posters "pedophiles," as it clearly reflected poorly on HHI? That's different, we suppose. What's more, if a publicly traded company had to dispel every rumor, lie or mistruth, posted by supporters and opponents alike in a public Internet chat room, they'd never be able to run their business.
Once again, Solomon displays his utter ignorance about how the real world operates, which is what happens when you frolic about in a one-dimensional, criticism-free bubble of bitterness.
And, now, drum roll please (this is very exciting): We believe HH Watch received its first actual disdainful nod from Solomon. We're so proud and excited!
Not to worry, sir, there's nothing to be ashamed of...we know you're one of our most avid readers. We know you gobble up our content as excitedly as you do Doc's nonsensical ramblings, and we suspect you secretly dig our slaps at old "nauticalresearch" (he's a bit of an easy target, though, no?). We especially love that you felt it necessary to say out loud that we're masquerading as something we're not. You'd like to know for sure though, huh? Regardless, thanks for the props, Solomon.
Solomon: "OME has nothing. It is nothing but an irritant. Yes, I think the end days are approaching."
We're sure that's what you think. But, take note of our new poll. And since you like to say we're intimately connected with Odyssey (we've said clearly from the outset we're not, so be careful, meat), we're hoping you're right and they'll take our advice and hold you, and your cast of clowns, personally accountable for the words and actions against a publicly traded company. Just like Doc, in other words.
Cheerio mate!
This morning Scribe and Sir Solomon the Angry Twit (we're working on a trademark) are engaged in a lovefest, blissfully rolling about in what they perceive to be Odyssey's gore. It's not pretty, but it is amusing.
Scribe: "Receive a reward for a salvage Odyssey had been told - repeatedly - by the owner to not touch? Dream on, Stemm. Now look at this next part and try to count all the untruths: This sentence caught my attention: The Court also dismissed certain counts of Odyssey's Complaint which related to Spain's illegal actions against Odyssey. You bet the court did. How did Spain's detention of those ships relate to the admiralty arrest? Not in any way. And Odyssey is claiming the detention was illegal? Try going to a Madrid court and claiming that, fools!"
Where to begin with this lowlife? First, note the calm academic demeanor, so common to posts about Odyssey on the HH website: "Dream on." "Count all the mistruths." "Fools." No axe to grind here, no sir.
Next, the U.S. federal court dismissed Odyssey's claims against Spain's illegal detention of its ships because it does not have jurisdiction over such decisions, period. Finally, we'd be remiss if we didn't point out the sheer idiocy of Scribe's suggestion that Odyssey take its complaint against the Spanish government for the illegal seizure of its vessels to a "Madrid court," where he implies it would fail. Gee, you think?! No shite Sherlock. Do you charge for these powerful insights or do you try to give them away on a street corner?
Scribe: "I think we are seeing the end coming."
We're certain you do, Dirty Son of Solomon. But why should today be any different when you've been saying and predicting the same thing for years? Hmmm?
The Angry Twit, clearly titillated by all the tough-guy man talk, calls Odyssey "gutless" (some more of that objective tone and grand moral vision, we suppose) and chimes in:
Solomon: "First, OME claimed to all and sundry that Spain was blockading its ships at Gibraltar. This was an outright lie. Spain was doing the exact opposite: asking Odyssey to send its vessels out. 'Stay in' - 'come out' - as I said, the exact opposite.The lie has been repeated many times by OME's pumpers inside Yahoo Finance. OME has never disclaimed these pumpers, with their continual lies and misinformation. Yes, some must be just plain stupid - the illiteratti - but those few (masquerading as a crowd) who run the campaign, they know what they are about."
An "outright lie"? Yes Solomon, Spain was merely waiting for Odyssey to come out and play. Perhaps share some tapas and sangria. This is the most idiotic thing you've written yet, and you've an impressive body of work, friend. Spain illegally seized Odyssey's vessels, with a secret warrant that has yet to be produced, then arrested and imprisoned Odyssey's captain for daring to protest Spain's actions in international waters. And we suppose the official UK and US protests regarding these actions don't matter, right? (Well, surely they're also on Odyssey's payroll too, just like the international media.)
This claim is stupid enough on its face, but Solomon goes even further. He turns his unholy wrath on those on the Yahoo board, and takes Odyssey to task for failing to disclaim supposed lies and mistruths posted by anonymous individuals. Never mind the rich irony in this -- should Solomon have disclaimed Doc's habit of regularly calling Yahoo posters "pedophiles," as it clearly reflected poorly on HHI? That's different, we suppose. What's more, if a publicly traded company had to dispel every rumor, lie or mistruth, posted by supporters and opponents alike in a public Internet chat room, they'd never be able to run their business.
Once again, Solomon displays his utter ignorance about how the real world operates, which is what happens when you frolic about in a one-dimensional, criticism-free bubble of bitterness.
And, now, drum roll please (this is very exciting): We believe HH Watch received its first actual disdainful nod from Solomon. We're so proud and excited!
Not to worry, sir, there's nothing to be ashamed of...we know you're one of our most avid readers. We know you gobble up our content as excitedly as you do Doc's nonsensical ramblings, and we suspect you secretly dig our slaps at old "nauticalresearch" (he's a bit of an easy target, though, no?). We especially love that you felt it necessary to say out loud that we're masquerading as something we're not. You'd like to know for sure though, huh? Regardless, thanks for the props, Solomon.
Solomon: "OME has nothing. It is nothing but an irritant. Yes, I think the end days are approaching."
We're sure that's what you think. But, take note of our new poll. And since you like to say we're intimately connected with Odyssey (we've said clearly from the outset we're not, so be careful, meat), we're hoping you're right and they'll take our advice and hold you, and your cast of clowns, personally accountable for the words and actions against a publicly traded company. Just like Doc, in other words.
Cheerio mate!
Tuesday, May 6, 2008
Shhhhhhhh...
Anyone else notice that Doc suddenly clammed up over at HHI about the supposed location of the Mercedes? Was he read the riot act by the Angry Twit? Told to zip it once and for all?
Maybe he popped a noggin vessel trying to extrapolate the precise movements of a ship that sailed over 200 years ago. Lord knows he made a mess of all that over at Yahoo yesterday, as he usually does when he's presented with evidence contrary to his own.
Regardless, we're reminded that silence can be golden indeed.
Maybe he popped a noggin vessel trying to extrapolate the precise movements of a ship that sailed over 200 years ago. Lord knows he made a mess of all that over at Yahoo yesterday, as he usually does when he's presented with evidence contrary to his own.
Regardless, we're reminded that silence can be golden indeed.
HH Quote of the Day
"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds." ~ Albert Einstein
Civility...it's for the other guys
The HH nitwiterati spend an inordinate amount of time talking about their opponents' lack of "civility." In most cases, this simply means they don't like that some folks have the temerity to challenge the gospel according to HHI. They want you to sit, quietly listen, and shut up.
But do they live up to this noble call themselves? Our investigation reveals they're thin-skinned and decidedly uncivil. Perusing the HH website, specifically the "Odyssey and HMS Sussex" thread, we found plenty of insults, baseless accusations, name-calling, threats, you name it. We even found a juicy posting from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit, and others who could barely contain their fear and loathing of Odyssey. Enjoy.
Doc (2/2/07): "As to your question regarding the individuals orchestrating this; I think two of the principal manipulators, let's call them Mr. A and Mr. B, are playing in so many fields with OPM (other peoples' money) that this operation is probably 'Chump Change.' They are very wealthy individuals indeed, and they have friends."
Solomon (2/6/07): "I believe that the only interest OMR has in this is to string everyone along indefinitely, whilst the directors live off the capital and make what they can from the share options. And why not? The same gameplan worked with the Republic."
We wonder: With comments like these (and others), how did Solomon manage to avoid being pulled into Odyssey's libel suit? He better thank his lucky bupkus he didn't post this garbage over on Yahoo, like his less-smart, third-rate minion, Doc.
Solomon (2/15/07): "The Blair government is and always has been a venal, conniving bunch of lying, thieving conmen. This OMR deal is all too typical."
Nice sentiments about one's own government, eh? Think Solomon has a little anger/bitterness issue? You think?
Solomon (2/16/07): "The time is not far away, I suspect, when many others will begin to trawl OMR statements in an attempt to understand how they got suckered. You are right, Doc, in saying not much has happened in the last five years, at least as far as making progress is concerned. OMR has managed, though to spend a lot of other peoples' money. On what security? Poor research and dreams of avarice."
What's that smell? Faintly has the scent of libel....
Sovereign (2/26/07): "As others have commented at History Hunters, the world in which OMR works is replete with shady people and sometimes, criminal activity including fraud...."
No sweeping generalizations here, no sir-ee Bob.
Solomon (3/24/07): "One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are."
Wow, the Angry Twit's pretty well worked up! You can almost see those red veins popping through that vast, empty territory that is his forehead. Solomon even threatens violence, though we doubt the effete former TV producer could manage even a pussycat's scruff, let alone a man's. (Regardless, we'd pay to see both efforts.)
Interestingly, Jeff K. then chimes in to question HH's chronic and baseless insulting of the Odyssey management team. (You'll see how well that goes over.)
Jeff K. (3/25/07): "I've met the principals of Odyssey, and you have not. You draw your conclusions from what you have read in the press, and your own personal prejudice. I feel sorry for people who think everybody are crooks and liars. I'd really like you to show me where Odyssey has intentionally lied, and please don't quote some erroneous newspaper article. Show me proof..."
No proof from HH was forthcoming, of course, and this challenge was enough for the administrator (who we think is Solomon or Doc or both) to respond:
Administrator (4/5/07): "The arguments have been made and until the identity of the shipwreck is confirmed, or cargo examined, there is no more to be said. I am therefore locking this thread until that time. We leave this subject with this thought: History Hunters knows more of this than has been published by any of the parties and we are quite sure of our negative position."
In other words, "we are taking our toys and going home and there's nothing you can do to stop us. Nah!" But wait, Admin boy returns, and with yet more lies and threats!
Administrator (4/6/07): "This was posted by Jeff at the Yahoo forum on OMR, on 5-Apr-07 12:38 am. Look at his above post and you will see that it has not been modified by anyone. This disproves his claim that we edited his post. He has therefore lied and as a consequence, is now banned from here. He is joining another former member, banned for lying to this board, who then went on to fabricate more lies in the Yahoo forum. This is not the first time that Jeff has told untruths on issues related to OMR. Solomon commented that he did not trust OMR on anything and Jeff repeatedly told those at Yahoo that Solomon claimed that Solomon accused OMR of lying. On that occasion, Jeff got the benefit of the doubt: we assumed that he was merely incapable of understanding plain English. This seemed reasonable at the time, as it would also explain his inability to understand any of the argument concerning OMR. However and in this case, Jeff's claim is so transparently false that he will not be forgiven. I should also advise both Jeff and others that defaming History Hunters is actionable in law. We have various actions underway regarding OMR and more will follow. Now Jeff is on the list. Maybe others will join him."
Defaming HH is "actionable in law." Really? Well then, we can hardly wait to get our legal notice, 'cause we surely been laying some strap down on that HH ass.
The HH poseurs then post a completely innocuous post by Jeff and unlocks the thread to allow members to insult Jeff without the ability to defend himself. This, of course, is how cowards operate, both online and in real life. Of course, now the rest of the HH monkeys are all worked up and have to chime in:
Bart (4/9/07): "[Jeff] needs to find a hobby, 10,000 posts all over the internet [sic] is an unhealthy life. Let's all chip in and buy him a ship in a bottle kit for him to build."
That doesn't sound like our Jeff at all, actually, but it most definitively sounds like Doc, though.
And finally, in what has to be the most richly ironic, foot-in-mouth post Doc has ever made:
Doc (4/17/07): "Members, It would appear as if the Odyssey Explorer forgot something. LOL Whatever could it be that requires leaving Gibraltar with the so called treasures of the 'Sussex' so close at hand? Did they damage the ROV again? Maybe they didn't have the money to reclaim it the last time and are hurrying back to the UK to pick it up? Just guesses on my part really. It would appear as if OMR may be cooking the stock as I can't imagine why one would pay more for a large block of stock than the closing price yesterday. Enough of this nonsense. We will just sit back and watch as this unfolds.."
Hmmmm, yes Doc: Ho-Ho-Ho and LOL. As you were gloating and undoubtedly toasting yourself and your brilliance, Odyssey was off recovering the richest shipwreck treasure ever found. Once again proving what an ignorant ass you are.
Finally, poor Solomon, no doubt feeling the sting of Odyssey's BS success, chimes in to conclude the Sussex thread, with this noble, deeply civil thought (perhaps a precursor to his "grand moral vision"?):
Solomon (1/14/08): "Britain is littered with historians, archaeologists and heritage people. We have numerous, prestigious institutions looking after these issues. None said anything that I can find about these obvious falsehoods, though they are quick enough to take our money. I have no sympathy for them. As for the perpetrators, I hope they rot where they deserve. I have no sympathy for them."
Oh, poor Solomon, but we sympathize for you. It cannot be easy to be both goofy looking and goofy acting at the same time. Perhaps this explains the origin of your deep well of anger and bitterness.
We feel for you, sir. Truly.
But do they live up to this noble call themselves? Our investigation reveals they're thin-skinned and decidedly uncivil. Perusing the HH website, specifically the "Odyssey and HMS Sussex" thread, we found plenty of insults, baseless accusations, name-calling, threats, you name it. We even found a juicy posting from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit, and others who could barely contain their fear and loathing of Odyssey. Enjoy.
Doc (2/2/07): "As to your question regarding the individuals orchestrating this; I think two of the principal manipulators, let's call them Mr. A and Mr. B, are playing in so many fields with OPM (other peoples' money) that this operation is probably 'Chump Change.' They are very wealthy individuals indeed, and they have friends."
Solomon (2/6/07): "I believe that the only interest OMR has in this is to string everyone along indefinitely, whilst the directors live off the capital and make what they can from the share options. And why not? The same gameplan worked with the Republic."
We wonder: With comments like these (and others), how did Solomon manage to avoid being pulled into Odyssey's libel suit? He better thank his lucky bupkus he didn't post this garbage over on Yahoo, like his less-smart, third-rate minion, Doc.
Solomon (2/15/07): "The Blair government is and always has been a venal, conniving bunch of lying, thieving conmen. This OMR deal is all too typical."
Nice sentiments about one's own government, eh? Think Solomon has a little anger/bitterness issue? You think?
Solomon (2/16/07): "The time is not far away, I suspect, when many others will begin to trawl OMR statements in an attempt to understand how they got suckered. You are right, Doc, in saying not much has happened in the last five years, at least as far as making progress is concerned. OMR has managed, though to spend a lot of other peoples' money. On what security? Poor research and dreams of avarice."
What's that smell? Faintly has the scent of libel....
Sovereign (2/26/07): "As others have commented at History Hunters, the world in which OMR works is replete with shady people and sometimes, criminal activity including fraud...."
No sweeping generalizations here, no sir-ee Bob.
Solomon (3/24/07): "One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are."
Wow, the Angry Twit's pretty well worked up! You can almost see those red veins popping through that vast, empty territory that is his forehead. Solomon even threatens violence, though we doubt the effete former TV producer could manage even a pussycat's scruff, let alone a man's. (Regardless, we'd pay to see both efforts.)
Interestingly, Jeff K. then chimes in to question HH's chronic and baseless insulting of the Odyssey management team. (You'll see how well that goes over.)
Jeff K. (3/25/07): "I've met the principals of Odyssey, and you have not. You draw your conclusions from what you have read in the press, and your own personal prejudice. I feel sorry for people who think everybody are crooks and liars. I'd really like you to show me where Odyssey has intentionally lied, and please don't quote some erroneous newspaper article. Show me proof..."
No proof from HH was forthcoming, of course, and this challenge was enough for the administrator (who we think is Solomon or Doc or both) to respond:
Administrator (4/5/07): "The arguments have been made and until the identity of the shipwreck is confirmed, or cargo examined, there is no more to be said. I am therefore locking this thread until that time. We leave this subject with this thought: History Hunters knows more of this than has been published by any of the parties and we are quite sure of our negative position."
In other words, "we are taking our toys and going home and there's nothing you can do to stop us. Nah!" But wait, Admin boy returns, and with yet more lies and threats!
Administrator (4/6/07): "This was posted by Jeff at the Yahoo forum on OMR, on 5-Apr-07 12:38 am. Look at his above post and you will see that it has not been modified by anyone. This disproves his claim that we edited his post. He has therefore lied and as a consequence, is now banned from here. He is joining another former member, banned for lying to this board, who then went on to fabricate more lies in the Yahoo forum. This is not the first time that Jeff has told untruths on issues related to OMR. Solomon commented that he did not trust OMR on anything and Jeff repeatedly told those at Yahoo that Solomon claimed that Solomon accused OMR of lying. On that occasion, Jeff got the benefit of the doubt: we assumed that he was merely incapable of understanding plain English. This seemed reasonable at the time, as it would also explain his inability to understand any of the argument concerning OMR. However and in this case, Jeff's claim is so transparently false that he will not be forgiven. I should also advise both Jeff and others that defaming History Hunters is actionable in law. We have various actions underway regarding OMR and more will follow. Now Jeff is on the list. Maybe others will join him."
Defaming HH is "actionable in law." Really? Well then, we can hardly wait to get our legal notice, 'cause we surely been laying some strap down on that HH ass.
The HH poseurs then post a completely innocuous post by Jeff and unlocks the thread to allow members to insult Jeff without the ability to defend himself. This, of course, is how cowards operate, both online and in real life. Of course, now the rest of the HH monkeys are all worked up and have to chime in:
Bart (4/9/07): "[Jeff] needs to find a hobby, 10,000 posts all over the internet [sic] is an unhealthy life. Let's all chip in and buy him a ship in a bottle kit for him to build."
That doesn't sound like our Jeff at all, actually, but it most definitively sounds like Doc, though.
And finally, in what has to be the most richly ironic, foot-in-mouth post Doc has ever made:
Doc (4/17/07): "Members, It would appear as if the Odyssey Explorer forgot something. LOL Whatever could it be that requires leaving Gibraltar with the so called treasures of the 'Sussex' so close at hand? Did they damage the ROV again? Maybe they didn't have the money to reclaim it the last time and are hurrying back to the UK to pick it up? Just guesses on my part really. It would appear as if OMR may be cooking the stock as I can't imagine why one would pay more for a large block of stock than the closing price yesterday. Enough of this nonsense. We will just sit back and watch as this unfolds.."
Hmmmm, yes Doc: Ho-Ho-Ho and LOL. As you were gloating and undoubtedly toasting yourself and your brilliance, Odyssey was off recovering the richest shipwreck treasure ever found. Once again proving what an ignorant ass you are.
Finally, poor Solomon, no doubt feeling the sting of Odyssey's BS success, chimes in to conclude the Sussex thread, with this noble, deeply civil thought (perhaps a precursor to his "grand moral vision"?):
Solomon (1/14/08): "Britain is littered with historians, archaeologists and heritage people. We have numerous, prestigious institutions looking after these issues. None said anything that I can find about these obvious falsehoods, though they are quick enough to take our money. I have no sympathy for them. As for the perpetrators, I hope they rot where they deserve. I have no sympathy for them."
Oh, poor Solomon, but we sympathize for you. It cannot be easy to be both goofy looking and goofy acting at the same time. Perhaps this explains the origin of your deep well of anger and bitterness.
We feel for you, sir. Truly.
Monday, May 5, 2008
Monkey Produces Hamlet!
The HH clowns finally got an updated professional shot of Doc at work posted on their website. Here he is pondering the content of his next letter to the court in his Odyssey libel trial ("hmmmm, how do I work in the CIA's involvement?").
Sunday, May 4, 2008
To know, truly
We're always amused by what goes on at the HH website, but especially so when it involves the endless mental masturbation about the Mercedes, specifically where it was supposedly heading and where it ultimately sank after exploding. Not surprisingly, much of this is being pursued by our libelous little buddy, Doc.
The HH poseurs appear to lack a basic, common sense understanding of the inherent limitations of historical analysis. That, despite first-hand accounts (which are nearly always flawed), maps, ship and nautical notes, secondary sources, etc., one cannot re-create precisely, with 100 percent certainty, what has happened in the past. Every student who's had even an elementary course in history is taught this truism.
Gazing back into the mists of history requires humility, something the HH clowns are in short supply of (this is what happens when you surround yourselves with yes men while killing all contrary opinion in your midst). Attempts to recreate, or analyze, historic events must be approached with the understanding that one can't possibly conclude what happened with certainty, or what the players involved actually thought or did. Nor can one overlook or diminish the role of human unpredictability that influences events, which ultimately end up as mere snapshots in time. We can certainly do our best to try to understand what happened and why, but we can never claim to have captured every nuance or explain away every mystery, especially concerning events that occurred over 200 years ago.
But all these practical considerations don't stop our little worker bee Doc from stating with near certainly where he thinks the Mercedes was headed and went down (this despite less-than-subtle suggestions from Solomon to cool it given the limitations of the historical evidence). Not does it prevent him from using words like "certainly," "definitively," "we can conclude," etc. and other modifiers that would indicate he's positively figured out precisely what happened between two nations and several ships on a single day in 1804.
Why this effort? Perhaps Doc requires a mental distraction from the harsh, real-world reality of his upcoming Odyssey libel trial. We're left to merely speculate.
This is one of the most damning behaviors of the HH poseurs: They believe their amateur interpretation of online research and assorted secondary sources, coupled with their own (often wild) speculations, results in a magical reaction that results in -- POOF -- the truth.
Of course, we all know it's slightly more complicated than that....
The HH poseurs appear to lack a basic, common sense understanding of the inherent limitations of historical analysis. That, despite first-hand accounts (which are nearly always flawed), maps, ship and nautical notes, secondary sources, etc., one cannot re-create precisely, with 100 percent certainty, what has happened in the past. Every student who's had even an elementary course in history is taught this truism.
Gazing back into the mists of history requires humility, something the HH clowns are in short supply of (this is what happens when you surround yourselves with yes men while killing all contrary opinion in your midst). Attempts to recreate, or analyze, historic events must be approached with the understanding that one can't possibly conclude what happened with certainty, or what the players involved actually thought or did. Nor can one overlook or diminish the role of human unpredictability that influences events, which ultimately end up as mere snapshots in time. We can certainly do our best to try to understand what happened and why, but we can never claim to have captured every nuance or explain away every mystery, especially concerning events that occurred over 200 years ago.
But all these practical considerations don't stop our little worker bee Doc from stating with near certainly where he thinks the Mercedes was headed and went down (this despite less-than-subtle suggestions from Solomon to cool it given the limitations of the historical evidence). Not does it prevent him from using words like "certainly," "definitively," "we can conclude," etc. and other modifiers that would indicate he's positively figured out precisely what happened between two nations and several ships on a single day in 1804.
Why this effort? Perhaps Doc requires a mental distraction from the harsh, real-world reality of his upcoming Odyssey libel trial. We're left to merely speculate.
This is one of the most damning behaviors of the HH poseurs: They believe their amateur interpretation of online research and assorted secondary sources, coupled with their own (often wild) speculations, results in a magical reaction that results in -- POOF -- the truth.
Of course, we all know it's slightly more complicated than that....
HH Quote of the Day...
...a new feature in honor of our HH history poseur friends:
"There is no such thing as an underestimate of average intelligence." ~ Henry Adams (1838 - 1918)
The Nerve of the Devil
Those objective, historically focused dillweeds over at HH were kind enough to post a "schedule of events" for Odyssey this coming week. Of course, the history poseurs couldn't resist some non-partisan commentary as well:
As far as Odyssey running out of cash, HH cites nothing to back this up (we know they don't understand financials), so once again we have clear and convincing evidence of their use of scummy innuendo -- a favorite practice of the nitwit-erati -- to try to score a cheap point.
But our favorite HH "idea" is the one that Spain has been fighting Odyssey with mere "kid gloves." Yeah, that's right, Spain hasn't been tough enough for the 90 pound weaklings over at HH. We're not sure what "saga" they're watching, but they clearly want more "combat" (as cowards often do when they're at a safe distance). Perhaps they'd like to see Spain, instead of merely illegally seizing Odyssey's ships on international waters, open fire and bomb the vessels. Maybe hang the crew at sunset?
Objective. Seekers of the truth. Historical devotees. Whatever.
We found an amusing if rambling, rather histrionic quote from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit (he's just old enough for the onset of menopause symptoms) that may explain this hysterical pleading for Spain to get "tougher" on OMEX:
Solomon (3/24/07) : One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are.
In "real life"?! As opposed to what, tough-guy poster Solomon? Your unreal life running HH, or your claims to be an accomplished historian and archaeologist? Are YOU for real?
Finally, you gotta love the Angry Twit's reference to the Devil. We're talking evil here, folks. Any wonder then that Solomon deludes himself and his followers into believing (truly) their efforts are on the vanguard of a new and "grand moral vision"? More like a drunken grand poo-bah leading his mindless, stampeding herd right over a cliff, in our opinion.
We've got an exciting week planned too. We expect that as Odyssey completes its annual meeting, and Spain reacts to Odyssey's interrogatories, we'll have plenty of riotous HH material to mock and shred (our version of "shock and awe"). We expect much laughter and merriment to ensue, so please stay tuned!
Not sure what they mean by "AGM," but we assume this means the company's annual shareholder meeting. Note the dripping-with-envy comment about the company possibly dropping another "grand announcement," about a treasure find, which would surely cause the spontaneous combustion of many pea brains over at HH HQ.Much is happening this week in the saga of Odyssey Marine.
7 May: the company's AGM.
8 May: Spain makes an official statement.
9 May: court interrogatory answers from Spain are due.
Will the company make yet another grand announcement of finding treasure?
Will Spain finally exchange its kid gloves for something more combative?
The company must be running short of cash again, so something has to give.
As far as Odyssey running out of cash, HH cites nothing to back this up (we know they don't understand financials), so once again we have clear and convincing evidence of their use of scummy innuendo -- a favorite practice of the nitwit-erati -- to try to score a cheap point.
But our favorite HH "idea" is the one that Spain has been fighting Odyssey with mere "kid gloves." Yeah, that's right, Spain hasn't been tough enough for the 90 pound weaklings over at HH. We're not sure what "saga" they're watching, but they clearly want more "combat" (as cowards often do when they're at a safe distance). Perhaps they'd like to see Spain, instead of merely illegally seizing Odyssey's ships on international waters, open fire and bomb the vessels. Maybe hang the crew at sunset?
Objective. Seekers of the truth. Historical devotees. Whatever.
We found an amusing if rambling, rather histrionic quote from Sir Solomon the Angry Twit (he's just old enough for the onset of menopause symptoms) that may explain this hysterical pleading for Spain to get "tougher" on OMEX:
Solomon (3/24/07) : One of the reasons why I detest this thread - and all others concerning OMR - is the blatant disregard for truth shown by those supporting OMR. We have seen this repeatedly where investors have sunk their money into speculative marine treasure hunts. It reduces what we may suppose to be grown men, otherwise responsible adults, to act like juvenile delinquents…I personally have no idea how the OMR directors have the nerve to ask for others to give them millions to spend without a shred of suypporting [sic] evidence. Only the devil has that sort of nerve. The excuses - the attempts to rationalise this - are pathetic: if a public document of the 17th century, with no reference to the location of the Sussex, is made public, then others could steal the treasure. That is another patent lie, repeated here in this board. No doubt lies are all part and parcel of manipulating share prices and considered fair game by the perpetrators. Maybe. But I find their lying drivel to be an insult to the readers, members and directors of History Hunters. In real life, I would throw them out of my home by the scruff of their necks like the dogs they are.
In "real life"?! As opposed to what, tough-guy poster Solomon? Your unreal life running HH, or your claims to be an accomplished historian and archaeologist? Are YOU for real?
Finally, you gotta love the Angry Twit's reference to the Devil. We're talking evil here, folks. Any wonder then that Solomon deludes himself and his followers into believing (truly) their efforts are on the vanguard of a new and "grand moral vision"? More like a drunken grand poo-bah leading his mindless, stampeding herd right over a cliff, in our opinion.
We've got an exciting week planned too. We expect that as Odyssey completes its annual meeting, and Spain reacts to Odyssey's interrogatories, we'll have plenty of riotous HH material to mock and shred (our version of "shock and awe"). We expect much laughter and merriment to ensue, so please stay tuned!
Friday, May 2, 2008
"Stand Down!", he roared with indignation.
Some interesting back and forth over at HH regarding the Mercedes today.
Doc, as usual, drones on and on and on about location, location, location. But it appears Solomon has applied yet another disciplinary smack, and a firm stomp on the brakes, to Doc's efforts.
Solomon: "Doc, Our argument on location is in particular reference to the arrest, claimed to be in international waters. We must not be tempted to go further...As Lubby has pointed out in a number of posts, much is uncertain. The version of España Maritima quoted by Lubby and requoted by you is a translation into English from the Spanish, by Tofiño de San Miguel. Do you know when the original was written, or how up-to-date was all the detail?...All we can say with any degree of certainty is that our calculations (not the archival records themselves, but based on the data therein) indicate strongly that the Odyssey claim to have found the Black Swan inside international waters in [sic] wrong. We have nothing to gain by trying to go further, most especially with a guess-estimate."
Why not go further? What is Solomon afraid of? Is Doc bungling interpretations so badly (Solomon characterizes them as "guest-estimates") that he must be muzzled? And what does Solomon mean that the archival records don't themselves prove anything about where the ship went down, but that the "data therein" indicates Odyssey is lying? Does that make sense? And, while we admire Sir Solomon the Angry Twit's efforts to bring Doc back to Earth regarding his reading of and extrapolation from the primary sources, he too can't help himself by once again calling Odyssey liars about where they found the Black Swan (BS).
For the record, here is what Odyssey officially said about where they recovered the BS (emphasis ours):
So does constantly posting that the company is lying about this constitute libel? We think so.
Regardless of all the banter, it's always great fun watching Solomon lay the strap on our favorite whipping boy, Doc, and we think a marvelous way to kick off the weekend. So, have a fun and relaxing weekend everyone. We'll have some new material and posts for you next week.
UPDATE: Looks like Doc couldn't leave well enough alone and kept speculating about the BS and where it went down. This apparently did not sit well with Solomon -- again -- and he posted:
Solomon: "Doc, in the chart you provide, the soundings for the channel illustrated are marked as 3 and 4. Are those fathoms? The importance of Faro as a port has already been noted. She sent forth voyages of exploration across the world and was one the principal ports of Portugal for trade with the Americas. When was Espana Maritima written? Was it accurate?"
The "master" is once again chastising the pupil for his accuracy in research, his repetitiveness (that's a few times now), while also questioning his interpretation and use of primary sources for his speculations. This is turning out to be a most excellent Friday indeed.
Kick back and pop a cold one, kids!
UPDATE-2: This comment, from our friend Jeff K., is so good, we're pulling into the main body of this post:
Doc, as usual, drones on and on and on about location, location, location. But it appears Solomon has applied yet another disciplinary smack, and a firm stomp on the brakes, to Doc's efforts.
Solomon: "Doc, Our argument on location is in particular reference to the arrest, claimed to be in international waters. We must not be tempted to go further...As Lubby has pointed out in a number of posts, much is uncertain. The version of España Maritima quoted by Lubby and requoted by you is a translation into English from the Spanish, by Tofiño de San Miguel. Do you know when the original was written, or how up-to-date was all the detail?...All we can say with any degree of certainty is that our calculations (not the archival records themselves, but based on the data therein) indicate strongly that the Odyssey claim to have found the Black Swan inside international waters in [sic] wrong. We have nothing to gain by trying to go further, most especially with a guess-estimate."
Why not go further? What is Solomon afraid of? Is Doc bungling interpretations so badly (Solomon characterizes them as "guest-estimates") that he must be muzzled? And what does Solomon mean that the archival records don't themselves prove anything about where the ship went down, but that the "data therein" indicates Odyssey is lying? Does that make sense? And, while we admire Sir Solomon the Angry Twit's efforts to bring Doc back to Earth regarding his reading of and extrapolation from the primary sources, he too can't help himself by once again calling Odyssey liars about where they found the Black Swan (BS).
For the record, here is what Odyssey officially said about where they recovered the BS (emphasis ours):
It is believed that this recovery constitutes the largest collection of coins ever excavated from a historical shipwreck site. They were recovered in conformity with Salvage Law and the Law of the Sea Convention, beyond the territorial waters or legal jurisdiction of any country. The Company does not believe that the recovery is subject to sovereign immunity by any nation pursuant to the Law of the Sea Convention. (Odyssey's May, 18, 2007, press release.)That's a clear, definitive statement. Odyssey's ocean movements, and the precise coordinates of where the BS was found and archaeologically excavated, are well-documented and part of the public record. Why anyone thinks the company would lie about something so basic, and so easy to disprove publicly, is beyond our comprehension.
So does constantly posting that the company is lying about this constitute libel? We think so.
Regardless of all the banter, it's always great fun watching Solomon lay the strap on our favorite whipping boy, Doc, and we think a marvelous way to kick off the weekend. So, have a fun and relaxing weekend everyone. We'll have some new material and posts for you next week.
UPDATE: Looks like Doc couldn't leave well enough alone and kept speculating about the BS and where it went down. This apparently did not sit well with Solomon -- again -- and he posted:
Solomon: "Doc, in the chart you provide, the soundings for the channel illustrated are marked as 3 and 4. Are those fathoms? The importance of Faro as a port has already been noted. She sent forth voyages of exploration across the world and was one the principal ports of Portugal for trade with the Americas. When was Espana Maritima written? Was it accurate?"
The "master" is once again chastising the pupil for his accuracy in research, his repetitiveness (that's a few times now), while also questioning his interpretation and use of primary sources for his speculations. This is turning out to be a most excellent Friday indeed.
Kick back and pop a cold one, kids!
UPDATE-2: This comment, from our friend Jeff K., is so good, we're pulling into the main body of this post:
Here's a quote from Doc: "The recovery of even a single inscribed bronze cannon would identify the Mercedes. The records kept in the Museo Naval and the Real Arsenal would specify the last ship to which the cannon was assigned. Now, where are the cannon?"
Not going to happen! The Spanish stopped using bronze cannons 100 years before the Mercedes sank. So much for Doc's knowledge about Spanish armament. ~ Jeff K.
Thursday, May 1, 2008
We ain't them
Somebody emailed us anonymously to ask a critical, but fair question. And since we make it a point to not behave like the HH Stalinist bureaucrats, we're going to answer it. This person said they liked the blog, and said we were creating a "History Hunters Hell" (which we liked), but wanted to know why, if we're getting as many hits as our indicator shows, so few posted comments or participated in the polling.
Let's first address whether our hit counts are accurate or above board. The hit counter you see on the lower right side of this website is a downloaded piece of freeware that (magically!) counts visits to our website in the background. We have nothing to do with it nor are we able to manipulate it (check out the link to their website, if you like). Now, could we sit at our computers and refresh our browsers every 3 seconds to drive the count up one click at a time? Sure could. Would we do that? Uh, no. We'd much rather spend our limited time parsing the HH website for the extraordinarily stupid postings that make this site so much fun, and we think, popular.
Regarding comments posted to this site, we too are surprised more people don't add commentary. We certainly welcome it, and we will not moderate or censor them like some folks we know (within reason, of course). As one friend told us, he didn't even know posting comments was possible. So maybe you don't either. So please, by all means, add your two cents to the fray.
Finally, regarding poll participation, how do we know why only 30 or so people voted in our last poll? Not everyone who goes to a baseball game buys a beer, but that doesn't reduce the final attendance number, does it? The only other explanation we can think to provide is that perhaps most people find the polling to be silly and sophomoric, which of course it purposely is.
So there you have it: we don't manipulate our website hits (though we don't doubt there are those at HH who'd like to think so), we welcome and encourage your comments, and if you don't want to vote in the poll, we understand. Though, we hope you'll at least enjoy the super scientific objective results.
Let's first address whether our hit counts are accurate or above board. The hit counter you see on the lower right side of this website is a downloaded piece of freeware that (magically!) counts visits to our website in the background. We have nothing to do with it nor are we able to manipulate it (check out the link to their website, if you like). Now, could we sit at our computers and refresh our browsers every 3 seconds to drive the count up one click at a time? Sure could. Would we do that? Uh, no. We'd much rather spend our limited time parsing the HH website for the extraordinarily stupid postings that make this site so much fun, and we think, popular.
Regarding comments posted to this site, we too are surprised more people don't add commentary. We certainly welcome it, and we will not moderate or censor them like some folks we know (within reason, of course). As one friend told us, he didn't even know posting comments was possible. So maybe you don't either. So please, by all means, add your two cents to the fray.
Finally, regarding poll participation, how do we know why only 30 or so people voted in our last poll? Not everyone who goes to a baseball game buys a beer, but that doesn't reduce the final attendance number, does it? The only other explanation we can think to provide is that perhaps most people find the polling to be silly and sophomoric, which of course it purposely is.
So there you have it: we don't manipulate our website hits (though we don't doubt there are those at HH who'd like to think so), we welcome and encourage your comments, and if you don't want to vote in the poll, we understand. Though, we hope you'll at least enjoy the super scientific objective results.
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